Re: New 75 Monte Project

by JiMi_DRiX Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:15 pm

I have been reading that the mechanical fuel pump could be making this noise. That would also make some sense since the car has been sitting for so long.

by 77mali Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:13 pm

The fuel pump is easy to take out and clean, you'll just need to plug the line leading in to it and catch the gas in a canister like a cleaned glass sauce jar or something. Clean the line leading up to the carb also and get a filter if there's not one on there already (if there is replace it).

You can't get the pushrod out without removing the plate that is between the block and the pump itself, so you will need both gaskets as they will likely need to be scraped off. It's worth cleaning out but I'd also check the carb first and run some Gum-out or Seafoam through the Vacuum lines and in the carb valves. Sounds like the Carb is gummed-up.

http://www.seafoamsales.com/sea-foam-spray.html

How long did you run it for?

by JiMi_DRiX Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:03 pm

I remember getting that old steel fuel line off the car being a pain in the A$$ because its snaked through the water pump and all that. Whats the best way to clean that out?

Do you remember if there is a fuel filter INSIDE the old Rochester 2bbl carbs? I have in-line one on my other two cars, and not seeing it on this car I didnt think about it.

I've done the fuel pump on my 76 back when it was still mechanical, its just been quite a few years. The push rod was a bit of a pain in the A$$ to get lined up, but I always eventually got it in there. I'll probably just replace the pump anyway since its not that expensive.

I've never used Seafoam before, but it sounds like a good idea. I'm sure there is a little crud in the carb as well. It started to run a lot smoother after a little while. Do I just spray it into the vac lines while its running? and down into the carb?

I only ran it for a few min at a time the first couple of times I started it. But the last time I let it run for about ten minutes to let it warm up and see if things changed. Im scared that sound is a rod knock, but I want to think its something else since the car has sat for a while. Thats when I got reading about fuel pump noise.

by ant7377 Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:07 pm

Even if it is a knock that car is so solid I wouldnt hestate to put a motor in it, Cant wait to see it all cleaned up.

by 77mali Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:34 pm

The seafoam works good, when I fired my car up for the 1st time (before I tore everything down the 1st time). I used it in the gas tank and used the spray version to clean the carb and the lines, just spray it in the lines coming out of the carb & it will travel through the system.

The line is snaked as you mentioned but you'll be able to disconnect it at the Carb and again- spray the seafoam down into the line- before you get the old pump off, then you'll have a clean line for the fresh gas. You can put a filter off the fuel line near the frame if you don't want to do it the other way.

I have a cast iron manifold (cross over style) It's from an '88 block but if it will fit yours your welcome to it just for shipping if you want to put a 4 BBL on that thing. It's very clean just some minor paint left on it.

by Mcarlo77 Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:39 pm

Change out the fuel pump...it's good preventative maintenance for a vehicle that's this old and been sitting. Maybe you'll get lucky and that will be the source of the noise. Here's another tip...put a 1/2-3/4 can of Seafoam in the crankcase and run the car for awhile on several occasions to loosen up and dissolve sludge and crap. Then change oil/filter again. Bet you'll be amazed at how filthy the oil is despite your having changed it once before.

by 77mali Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:42 pm

Mcarlo77 wrote:Change out the fuel pump...it's good preventative maintenance for a vehicle that's this old and been sitting. Maybe you'll get lucky and that will be the source of the noise. Here's another tip...put a 1/2-3/4 can of Seafoam in the crankcase and run the car for awhile on several occasions to loosen up and dissolve sludge and crap. Then change oil/filter again. Bet you'll be amazed at how filthy the oil is despite your having changed it once before.

X2 & Amen (forgot I did this also- Seafoam in the crankcase)...LOL.

by JiMi_DRiX Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:08 pm

77mali wrote:The seafoam works good, when I fired my car up for the 1st time (before I tore everything down the 1st time). I used it in the gas tank and used the spray version to clean the carb and the lines, just spray it in the lines coming out of the carb & it will travel through the system.

The line is snaked as you mentioned but you'll be able to disconnect it at the Carb and again- spray the seafoam down into the line- before you get the old pump off, then you'll have a clean line for the fresh gas. You can put a filter off the fuel line near the frame if you don't want to do it the other way.

I have a cast iron manifold (cross over style) It's from an '88 block but if it will fit yours your welcome to it just for shipping if you want to put a 4 BBL on that thing. It's very clean just some minor paint left on it.

I'll pick some up this week and see what happens! I'll have to double check that Rochester, I dont remember if it has a filter inside at the line or not.

I already thought about a 4bbl swap for later on (much later on, lol). If I do, I might go aluminum just for the sake of heat. I do live in the desert, and things like to get real hot out here!

Mcarlo77 wrote:Change out the fuel pump...it's good preventative maintenance for a vehicle that's this old and been sitting. Maybe you'll get lucky and that will be the source of the noise. Here's another tip...put a 1/2-3/4 can of Seafoam in the crankcase and run the car for awhile on several occasions to loosen up and dissolve sludge and crap. Then change oil/filter again. Bet you'll be amazed at how filthy the oil is despite your having changed it once before.

I plan on replacing a whole list of things just for preventative maintenance, way ahead of you there! lol. I just want to get it running enough so I can get it the 5min to work, clean off all the engine gunk, and get it back home to work on a much cleaner car. I cant believe how dirty it is under the hood.

This Seafoam thing.... sounds like some good stuff. Maybe I'll just get a case. lol

Thanks guys! I really appreciate the help.

by texan01 Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:00 pm

Replace the pump, it'll start leaking on you sooner rather than later.

the fuel filter is in the fuel inlet like a Q-jet, but it's a tiny thing.

Yours sounded like mine when I got it, a can marvel mystery oil and 4 fresh quarts got it quieted down nicely, and got the stuck lifter loosened up. 40,000 miles later I've yet to actually pull the heads or intake off a 170,000 mile engine that's only been apart for oil pan, timing chain, rear seal, and valve covers.

Be prepared for oil leaks. Mine started leaking like a sieve once I started running it and 'exercising' it.

by 74MonteCarlo Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:04 pm

I will attest to marvel Mystery Oil!!!

by JiMi_DRiX Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:58 pm

Have any of you added an in line fuel filter down by the frame? Can you post a photo?

As dirty as the motor is, I think its preventing any leaks. Im in for it after I steam clean it! Haha.

After the Seafoam, I'll have to try some of this Marvel stuff too. From the inside of the valve cover at the oil cap I can see what even looks like a little gunk.

by JiMi_DRiX Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:16 pm

Well, heres what happened. I put in a clean fuel filter, sprayed some lines, sprayed the carb, and let it run. I then added some to the oil, and a little through the brake booster line. Let it run. I never got any smoke, but the cat did get nice and hot. glowing hot. So I shut her off. I went out this morning, fired it up, expecting smoke, but nothing. The "tick" sound isnt present, but the car is running a little rough. Do you think its possible to clog the cat up using this stuff? Too much carbon debris going through the exhaust at once? I did notice what appeared to be a little bit of black soot behind the car under the tailpipe.

by 77mali Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:26 pm

That's weird....was the cat like that before? Maybe debris from an animal?

by Mcarlo77 Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:33 pm

Did you read the instructions on the can of Seafoam as to how much to add based on gal. in the tank? I believe the instructions say 1 can (16 ozs/1Pint) will treat 8-25 gals of gas. I've never introduced it through the vacuum lines, so maybe Paul (77Mali) can shed some light on that. Does kind of seem like you overwhelmed it with the cat getting so hot. Also, notice the instructions recommend 1 1/2 ozs per qrt. of oil in the crankcase, too (in our cars, that's half a can).

by texan01 Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:52 pm

If your cat is glowing, its running way way rich. Is it the original one or a replacement? The original cat will be about a foot wide by 18-20" long and very flat, it'll say AC on the bottom of it.

If it's a replacement, it should be easy to swap in a piece of straight pipe to 'verify
performance while you are 'fixing' it.

by JiMi_DRiX Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:53 pm

It's a replacement, but if I remember correctly its welded in. I'm going to also check the carb. Maybe something loosened up in there and is causing it to run rich as well maybe?

Maybe a fouled plug?

by 77mali Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:55 pm

Jimi
When I used the Seafoam in the lines it was the spray bottle with the plastic tube and the spray trigger. I just used prob 1/4 of the can if that, just enough to prime the system so to speak. It is also packaged in a pourable bottle to apply in the tank. I used the whole can to mix with about 15 gallons of very old gas that was in there.

If your tank is not completely full, adding some 87 octane might help w/ the rich mixture, if that's what's causing the issue. My car has headers and no Cat so I did not experience this problem. Sorry to hear you are. It could also be a fouled plug as you said....also, there should be an adjustment screw that will adjust the carb to run richer or leaner, you may want to check that it's properly adjusted. I have it on the passengers side of the 4bbl but I had it rebuilt and it came back "tuned" so I don't know how it gets adjusted but would be happy to look in my manual if it will help you.

Was there exhaust (not smoke) coming out of the tailpipe when all this was happening?

by JiMi_DRiX Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:05 pm

I didn't get any smoke, maybe it hasn't taken total affect yet?

By the sound of the exhaust, my guess is a misfire. (it has that soft 'bump' to it every couple seconds or so if you listen close) I'm going to run it and start pulling plug wires and see what I can find. Does it only take one fouled plug to cause a cat to get hot like that though? That much unburned fuel going through? I'm no expert on engines, just know a fair share. I haven't worked this much in depth on one in a long time so its a little frustrating.

I did not run any seafoam through the gas tank. I currently have it disconnected because I'm afraid of what's possibly gunked up in there. I wanted to get it running ste ady before I dump that much money into a new tank and sending unit. Right now its running on a long rubber line in a small gas can

by texan01 Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:21 pm

It's probably a gunked up needle and seat or stuck float. You can also take the mixture screws and lightly seat them and then turn them out about two turns, that should get you in a leanish ballpark.

One cylinder wont cause it. I bought mine and it was running on 6 cylinders, got a whopping 9mpg on the highway. Now it gets 15-20mpg with just a tuneup thrown at it.

You could also have overadvanced ignition, timing may have jumped at some point from the nylon timing chain set, if this motors got no evidence of being apart.

I'd almost be tempted to saw the cat off and put a straight pipe in it. But what you could do is just take it off, and run it straight off the y-pipe, that'll let you get it running without setting the car and grass on fire. it'll be loud. If you do take the cat off, and can snake a light into one side of it, see if you can see light through it, if you can then its probably ok. If its good, put it back on. it doesn't rob any power, unlike the OE design.

Once you get it running fine, then put it back on and see if it starts getting red again.

It's taking the unburned fuel and burns it in the cat, which is why it gets cherry red if an uncontrolled reaction is going on.

by ant7377 Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:38 pm

THe carb might have been set too rich because it was all gunked up and now the sea foam has loosen all the crap up and its just too rich and dumping fuel .The float could be stuck too like mentioned above. Try tapping the carb with something-gently and see if that helps and also the idle screws turn em in a bit.

by JiMi_DRiX Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:57 am

texan01 wrote:It's probably a gunked up needle and seat or stuck float. You can also take the mixture screws and lightly seat them and then turn them out about two turns, that should get you in a leanish ballpark.

One cylinder wont cause it. I bought mine and it was running on 6 cylinders, got a whopping 9mpg on the highway. Now it gets 15-20mpg with just a tuneup thrown at it.

You could also have overadvanced ignition, timing may have jumped at some point from the nylon timing chain set, if this motors got no evidence of being apart.

I'd almost be tempted to saw the cat off and put a straight pipe in it. But what you could do is just take it off, and run it straight off the y-pipe, that'll let you get it running without setting the car and grass on fire. it'll be loud. If you do take the cat off, and can snake a light into one side of it, see if you can see light through it, if you can then its probably ok. If its good, put it back on. it doesn't rob any power, unlike the OE design.

Once you get it running fine, then put it back on and see if it starts getting red again.

It's taking the unburned fuel and burns it in the cat, which is why it gets cherry red if an uncontrolled reaction is going on.

Yeah I've already been thinking about sawing the cat off and getting a piece of straight pipe and a couple clamps. I'll try the carb screws first, and then check the plugs. Getting the exhaust unbolted from the Y pipe might be impossible without an impact. Its probably not rusted, but those damn exhaust bolts always seem like a nightmare! The muffler has a nice hole in it too by the way, noticed that the other day.

ant7377 wrote:THe carb might have been set too rich because it was all gunked up and now the sea foam has loosen all the crap up and its just too rich and dumping fuel .The float could be stuck too like mentioned above. Try tapping the carb with something-gently and see if that helps and also the idle screws turn em in a bit.

I'll try a little tap... Give it a little tappy. Tap, tap, tap-a-roo. /Happy Gilmore.

by JiMi_DRiX Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:22 pm

I adjusted the carb, but it was set pretty well, no difference there. So I started pulling plug wires off the passenger side, and a couple didnt seem to change anything. There was a full box of 8 and another of 4 new spark plugs in the trunk, so I changed out all the ones on the passenger side first, and now she is running smooth again. BUT, the ticking has come back. I think it just need ran a while to loosen everything up. Its not as loud as it first was and is slowly fading away. Im going to replace a couple cracked vac lines and let her run for a little while and see what happens. If things seem well, I'll get ready to drop the tank and do that whole thing, and then be able to have the car mobile to where I can get it to work and pressure wash that filthy filthy engine off!!

by JiMi_DRiX Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:23 pm

Not much of an update, but I did a couple things, took a couple pictures. I'm waiting for some time to drop the tank and see if I need to replace it or if I can clean it out. I cleaned up the interior a little bit, just a vacuum. Found that the passenger front floor is rusted pretty bad. While we dont get underbody rust our here in the desert, weather stripping dries out! I think water ran in through the door like it use to on my old yellow 73. So I'll have to get the floor on that side fixed before I replace the carpet some time down the line. I also removed the back seat in hopes of finding a build sheet. Good news! I did! About a 1inch by 1inch piece of it! Hopefully there is one under the fuel tank thats in better shape.

New 75 Monte Project - Page 2 625451_4481838129929_735598254_n

New 75 Monte Project - Page 2 625451_4481838129929_735598254_n

I just had to clean up those wheels and tires!
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New 75 Monte Project - Page 2 217985_4481838849947_1891700201_n

by 1973 454 MONTE Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:56 pm

lookin good Thumbs up

that driver door looks to be saggin

by JiMi_DRiX Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:32 pm

Yeah, its sagging pretty hard. The bottom pin is sticking up out. I tried holding the door up a little with a floor jack, and knocking the pin back in, but it didn't budge. Any advice on this one Chris? I know there are pin and bushing kits, I've just never done one. The driver door window regulator is messed up too.

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