454 into a OE 350 '75 Chevelle

by mc71454 Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:49 am

I read through the threads on engine mounts but it wasn't clear to what the solution is.

I will be removing the stock 350 and installing an already built 454 in my sons '75 Chevelle.

What can I re-use and what needs to be replaced for this swap as far as engine mounts are concerned?

For my '70 Chevelle (454) and '71 Monte (540), all I changed to were energy suspension motor mounts and used the existing frame mounts, It would seem GM would have kept the frame mounted parts consistent for assembly line purposes.

any help is appreciated before we swing this motor into position and find out it won't work.

Thanks !

Tom

Update:
I see Moroso has a Frame Pad, motor bracket combo for a solid mount system. Energy Suspension 3.1116 clamshells to go into the factory frame pad. Can I use the SB brackets and just beef up the frame pad with the new ES clams?

by pila Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:09 am

Hi Tom !
Welcome ! I'm no authority on big-block stuff, but with all the holes in the front cross member for mount brackets, it's likely that the big block would use a different set of holes ??

Others here will have the right answers I believe...

by bracketchev1221 Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:31 am

Hi Tom, its Ray. I'm over here too with my new project. Mine is a 76. But I do believe as long as you keep the clamshells for the 350, you buy 350 mounts it assembles it the same as the older cars. Just keep the engine and frame a matched set. I wouldn't go swapping 454 frame mounts with 350 engine clamshells.

by marks454ss Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:50 am

If your planning on installing Hooker headers. You'll want to use the taller 454 mounts.

by mc71454 Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:55 pm

bracketchev1221 wrote:Hi Tom, its Ray. I'm over here too with my new project. Mine is a 76. But I do believe as long as you keep the clamshells for the 350, you buy 350 mounts it assembles it the same as the older cars. Just keep the engine and frame a matched set. I wouldn't go swapping 454 frame mounts with 350 engine clamshells.

Hi Ray, glad to see you here as well. Car is for my son to get into racing in 2015 and he is doing all the work as I teach him. Have a nice hyd. roller, iron head 454, TH400 and 3.42's to round out the car.

I plan on re-cycling a set of 68-72 A body Hooker Competition Headers from my Monte Carlo in this car.

OK, I leave what is on the frame, just replace the Rubber inside with maybe the Energy Suspension 3.1116 that is the correct replacement per the energy suspension catalog. Take the 350 brackets off the stock motor and bolt to the 454. Makes sense.

Marks454SS says I need to use the Taller (2 - 3/16") engine brackets in lieu of the shorter (1 - 3/4") engine brackets to use Hooker Headers which I plan to use. The taller brackets are 2-3/8" wide and the shorter brackets are 2-5/8" wide. it seems I would need to change the frame mounts to work with the Taller and Narrower 454 engine brackets.

What headers would work with the Small Block Mounts and a Big Block?

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by brownbomber77 Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:29 pm

Do you need accessory brackets? I have all of them from an '84 454 truck if that helps at all.

by marks454ss Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:05 am

You'll also need to dent the #6 tube about 2 inches long and a 1/2 inch deep to clear the upper control arm and cut the excess off the bolt on the firewall side of control arm as well. Most dealers show the installation instructions on their sight so you can look at those before you buy to see what you need for installation.

by mc71454 Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:21 pm

brownbomber77 wrote:Do you need accessory brackets? I have all of them from an '84 454 truck if that helps at all.

Thanks, I do have all the brackets, but they are original to my '71 Monte. If the price is right, I wouldn't mind keeping my originals for that car.

Send me a PM and a photo or two.

Thanks!

Tom

by mc71454 Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:22 pm

Thanks Mark !

by mc71454 Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:34 pm

Thought I might share the improvements in the drivetrain and suspension for this father / son project.

Going with a Hughes 34-1 TH400 with Auto/Manual valve body. Transmission Specialties 10" 2800 to 3000 XHD converter. (Will realistically flash at 3200-3400 with the Torque of this motor).
Use the original 8.5, however, with welded axle tubes, 3.42 or 3.55 gear set with a Powertrax Lockright (old stronger style) Mark Williams 30 spine axles and c-clip eliminator kit, bearing cap stabilizing rearend cover. Dennys Driveshaft with 1350 U-joints because it is bullet proof for down the road.

Richard (D word was edited out...LOL) Miller No-hops and upper control arms, "4 speed bars", boxed factory lower arms, air bags and QA-1 adjustable shocks for the rear.
new factory front standard duty BB coil springs, regular gas shocks KYB or equivalent, shock nut trick when at the track.

This drivetrain is essentially exactly what my '71 Monte used to have when it was running 11.50's down to 10.60's.

Mechanical "Carter 172" fuel pump with 3/8" fuel line, Holley 750 HP carb

by Oldschool454 Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:16 pm

My 2 cents... I converted mine from a 305 to a 454. I bought big block mounts that go to the frame. And used the 305 mounts that bolt to the block. I did have to relacate the mounts on the crossmember further forward to different holes. I found that info and a picture of the correct holes on google somewhere. So I know it's out there. I have heddman shorty headers and had to baaarely ding one of the header tubes on the driver's side by the front control arm bolt to make them fit. But everything worked fine on my particular setup.

by dynchel Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:37 pm

I've never heard of miller no hops. I just went through a lot of research to try to cure wheel hop. Neither Lakewood, or edlbrock (I never heard of miller) had them for '73/'77s. The leaf spring style traction bar fixed it.

by mc71454 Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:49 pm

dynchel wrote:I've never heard of miller no hops. I just went through a lot of research to try to cure wheel hop. Neither Lakewood, or edlbrock (I never heard of miller) had them for '73/'77s. The leaf spring style traction bar fixed it.

dickmillerracing dot com

Depending on what your power level is, you may have dodged a bullet with no application for 73-77 available from E-brock and Lakewood.

Once you go over the 400 ft/lb mark in torque, the E-brocks mounting point on the no-hops is too high, same with the Lakewood. By relocating the instant center (IC) the car will lift in the rear forcing the tires into the ground (anti-squat). The E-brocks high mounting point causes too much anti-squat and unloads the tires. If you have a mild motor, not a problem. The D I c k Miller racing setup has two mounting points, one for lower powered cars and a lower point for higher powered cars. I have been using this system for 15 years on my '71 Monte (see Signature) and my '70 Chevelle. his company sells the setup for the '73-77. It is BY Far superior quality with a heim joint and thick steel compared to others I have tried. Yes, I tried the E-brocks on my '70 Chevelle (1.60 60 fts with 525 ft/lbs) to save a few bucks but made the rear lift so much it was unloading the tires, never mind the 800 ft/lbs my Monte has. Off to FleaBay and called Mr. Miller. Uppers are adjustable ON the Car to set pinion angle and if necessary set the right rear Pre-Load. Most others need to be removed to shorten or lengthen them.

They also sell the upper crossmember support bars that tie the crossmember and upper control arms together that were nicknamed "4 speed bars". Have to have those if you run any kind of sticky tire.

Lowering the rear of the lower control arm also changes the IC to eliminate wheel hop and develop anti-squat, it works but is not as stealth as no-hops and is more sensitive to adjustment.

by dynchel Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:06 pm

I have adjustable upper arms from spohn (with a helm joint in the front) solid PMT fabrication lower arms (urethane bushings) global west frame supports, Moog station wagon coils, h/d shocks, and a recycled 9C1 rear sway bar. The rear end is the original loaded with a powertrax extreme traction system and richmond 3:73 gears. The engine is probably only pushing maybe 300 h/p. It finally took homemade traction bars to stop a bad case of wheel hop.

by mc71454 Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:18 am

dynchel wrote:I have adjustable upper arms from spohn (with a helm joint in the front) solid PMT fabrication lower arms (urethane bushings) global west frame supports, Moog station wagon coils, h/d shocks, and a recycled 9C1 rear sway bar. The rear end is the original loaded with a powertrax extreme traction system and richmond 3:73 gears. The engine is probably only pushing maybe 300 h/p. It finally took homemade traction bars to stop a bad case of wheel hop.

Sounds Like a nice setup ! Love the stance in your avatar photo.

Tom

by dynchel Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:30 am

454 into a OE 350 '75 Chevelle IMG_20141001_112145849_zpsyk7vqlul

Thanks, it actually sits pretty level

by mc71454 Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:25 pm

Was real happy to find a set of 2.73 cogs in the rear of our '75 project this morning as I was expecting 2.56's. Adding a 30 spline powertrax, Mark Williams axles and going to call it a day.

Will run and tune and expect mid 12's. Swap in 3.42's next winter to hit low 12's and after my son gets some seat time.

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