Re: The big Buick Olds Pontiac 8.5 10 bolt info/tech thread and POLL

[w451973]

I'de like to clear up a couple of things. First off I'de like to apolagize. My axles were Strange and not Mosers. I was going off memory. I did not build the rear end, it was in the body when I bought it. And since I sold the car several years ago I cannot double check anything. If you look real close at the backing plate you'll see the tube does not taper and in fact is a bolt in axle.

Second. There is a 8-7/8 Pontiac axle used in some 73-77's. It has a huge 10 bolt cover with a 12 bolt carrior. It uses 28 and 30 spline axles depending on application. Do NOT get excited as there are NO gears or parts available for these.

Our 73-77's all use 28 spline 8.5 ten bolts. 30 spline 8.5's did'nt start till 88. You can buy 30 spline axles but then you'll have to change your carrior or at least your side gears.

You can use posi carriors from a c-clip rear into a bolt in rear because of the bolt in axles. BUT you cannot use a bolt in posi carrior in a c-clip rear without changing the side gears.

You can use the c-clip rear cover and gasket on a bolt in rear.

Bolt in axles are indeed larger then c-clip axles.

As everyone already knows you can use a Caprice rear end in our cars. But the 30 spline axles are still c-clip, not to mention the bolt pattern and the factory Auburn carriors are JUNK and not rebuildable like the aftermarket ones.

Eaton carriors are far superior to anything else.

FORGET about 8.5/8.6 truck rears for carriors as they usually have the ultra junk governer bomb units.

I've heard of good results from Superrior axles. NOT for full tilt race cars. It would be interesting to find out if they make a bolt in style axle.

[Sleddogg]

I second the statement about the truck used gov-lock units, not only are they over-complicated and prone to failure, but the locking design itself does not lend itself well to a performance street car, as you will still start in one wheel peel mode until the unit decides to kick in the other side (usually with a loud clang, and sometimes total failure), not too handy if your warming up your tires for a run. I have went back and forth on these BOP rear axles myself as far as looking for a replacement for my 10 bolt, but after my research and the helpful thread here, I am sticking with my 8.5 c clip 10 bolt, and going with an after market posi unit. In the long run, seems to be a overall better use of funds and time.

[carcass]

I have written Moser a nice long letter and submitted it on their website as well as emailing it to them, Including a link to this thread, Hopefully they will respond.

'

I allready called strange and this was their response-a cut form page one of this thread here---

'

I called Strange Eng. and talked to a very knowledgable guy named Edwin at the tech dept. and he was fully aware and versed on the B.O.P. type ten bolts with bolt in axles however he stated that "Strange Engineering does not make axles for these press bearing 8.5 ten bolts because the diameter of their axles is actually larger than the surface where the pressed on bearing would need to ride so they would have to make a new forging or machine down an intire axle to get the bearing into place, and that the bearings on these axles from GM are inferior due to the small diameter of the bearing itself."
'

I still have been unable to get a call back from Superior axle and gear to find out if they make them.

'

I sent Yukon gear a letter with no response as of yet.

Please keep the comments going,

carcass

[carcass]

Moser engineering emailed me back and this was their response,

'

To me,

from Matt Mcombs mmcombs@moserengineering.com

We make a great deal of these axles they are $370 dollars a pair for the shafts. Bearings, studs and retainers are in a package of $110. We would just need the axle specs provided. They will ship in two days.

[carcass]

I personally am not satisfied with this response, If they "make a great deal of these axles" then why don't they have the specs?? i don't know the specs and don't have the micrometers or knowhow to measure mine, and shipping one of mine seems rediculous at best.

I feel that a company as big as Moser and for how many of these rearends were made would at least keep the specs on hand and list them in their catalog and call them special order. Please it is their bussiness to make axles and from what I can tell they are not obscure!!

[carcass]

Thanks for the votes and the info provided everybody.

[carcass]

I guess I'll let this go until I can find out more about the bearings and seals themselves at the axle ends and if they are actually viable for race application.



But for now I'm gonna keep my eyes peeled for a C-clip rear and use Moser C-clip axles and a 30 spline center section.

[carcass]

there's a 74 Monte in the local pick and pull today, and I went and bought the C-clip ten bolt out of it and the lower control arms with the sway bar and a sweet dual exhaust trans crossmember and all the Emergency brake cables and clipydoos all for 198$.

The ten bolt has 2.73's again oh well I think I'm gonna use it to build a decent rear for my 74, I'm thinking 3.23"s and a true trac and moser 30 spline axles should be able to get it all done for 1500$ quite a bit cheaper than a nine inch I guess.

[carcass]

stock axle comparo photos between these two styles to come

[oldstofty]

I have a 10 bolt with C Clip eliminators on Moser Axles im gonna do a gear swap again soon ill mic them and post up the results.

[blaq's 73]

I know this thread is a few months old, but I wish I would have saw it last week instead of 2 days ago. I purchased a 8.5 posi that turned out to be a BOP rear with bolt in axles. Since I don't have unlimited funds I have been searching everywhere for replacement axles and bearing/seals. I found a Buick site and found a vendor. http://jdrace.com/presta/index.php Hopefully this helps anyone else that needs it. I know it saved me a lot of money and headache.

[carcass]

Thanks for the info!!
Yep I called every body and their neighbor to see who made axles for the bolt in type, Moser said they'd do it custom.
I read somewhere that people feel the bolt in axle type housing is better, have they actually looked at the sheetmetally retaining plate?
And the small bearing?

[carcass]

so after a long break...
Stock C clip to B.O.P. axle comparison time.
here are a couple pics should be self explanatory. I've never had another bolt in axle ten bolt shaft out before so I couldn't say if the bearings on this one are correct. I am surprised at the construction of the press bearing though, it looks like the seal goes on first then the bearing and then a collar that retains the whole mess, the collar looks like a crush sleeve from a pinion on a rearend, it looks like it goes on the axle to a point where the axle is relieved then it snaps over the relief edge. The whole axle is then retained by the thin-ish metal retainer into the housing. The retainer presses on the seal which presses on the bearing and the bearing presses on the housing.
See the photo that shows me holding the bearing apart a little.
both shafts on my 74 Malibu are like this.
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[carcass]

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[carcass]

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[carcass]

My 76 Malibu has a Buick/Olds/Pontiac bolt in axle rear and it has 11" drums on it, just thought I'd mention that. However the one shown here is my 74 which has the regular 9 1/2" brakes

[carcass]

I will be posting some dimensions of the two axles a little later. measured the thickness at a couple points.
The bearing end of the axles is a major point in my opinion the press bearing axle has a relief cut in it to fit that weird retaining collar/crush sleeve deal.

[carcass]

I now fully understand why my quest for a good aftermarket axle came up empty.
The press bearing axle has an odd bearing area on it. not anything like the ford ends or the c clip eliminator axles I have seen, which have an axle with a straight smooth surface for the bearing to press onto, and then a regular steel collar to retain it.

[Silentknight85]

Late to the game on this one, but I would like to confirm that the timken set 9 bearings are in fact the replacement bearings for the BOP 8.5 rear end 28-spline, which is what I have under my Chevelle. I reluctantly bought the Set 9 bearings and just installed them. They are a perfect fit.

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