Rear frame supports.
+10
BBMALIBU
dynchel
Limey SE
Keith Seymore
pila
thatfnthing
driveit
74Malibu383
1973 454 MONTE
jerry46765
14 posters
Page 1 of 4
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Rear frame supports.
Anyone running rear frame supports on their cars? Especially the big block and stick guys.
I've been looking at these for a long time. Lots of companies make them.
http://www.streetfire.net/video/buick-455-exhaust_2047090.htm
Look at the 15 second mark, right next to each muffler.
They came factory (prior to 73) on big block cars and small blocks with a stick. My buddy has them on both of his big block chevelles, a 70 and 72. Only thing I dont like about the factory ones is that the bolt hole is oval on the front of the brace, so that would still leave alot of play.
I'm thinking of going with these http://www.globalwest.net/ts-37.html
Here's a thread discussing them. http://www.v8buick.com/archive/index.php/t-73629.html
I like the idea of "triangulating" the rear and also helping out the front of the lower control arm area. Pretty weak around there. I ran aluminum lower control arm bushings years ago and also ran some ladder bars and both beat up that front mount pretty good. Even with everything torqued to specs. Dont want to go through that again with my new frame.
Just throwing it out there for opinions guys?
I've been looking at these for a long time. Lots of companies make them.
http://www.streetfire.net/video/buick-455-exhaust_2047090.htm
Look at the 15 second mark, right next to each muffler.
They came factory (prior to 73) on big block cars and small blocks with a stick. My buddy has them on both of his big block chevelles, a 70 and 72. Only thing I dont like about the factory ones is that the bolt hole is oval on the front of the brace, so that would still leave alot of play.
I'm thinking of going with these http://www.globalwest.net/ts-37.html
Here's a thread discussing them. http://www.v8buick.com/archive/index.php/t-73629.html
I like the idea of "triangulating" the rear and also helping out the front of the lower control arm area. Pretty weak around there. I ran aluminum lower control arm bushings years ago and also ran some ladder bars and both beat up that front mount pretty good. Even with everything torqued to specs. Dont want to go through that again with my new frame.
Just throwing it out there for opinions guys?
Joe73- Donating Member
- Street Cred : 83
Re: Rear frame supports.
Yes they are a good idea to prevent ripping the lower control arm mounts off the frame. It is a popular upgrade on the 68-72 chevelles as well. I have seen that mount break off the frame. The other choice is just weld a plate diagonally off the back of the mount to the frame to support it. But the triangulation is better. When the rear wants to rotate back, the upper bar pulls back on the lower mount with the extra bar. This balances out the forward force of the lower bar to an extent.
bracketchev1221- G3GM Enthusiast
- Street Cred : 16
Re: Rear frame supports.
Not sure how those are bolted on....I welded gussets on the upper and lower control arm mounts, to tie them to the frame better....but the El Camino has different frame rails than a Chevelle...
pila- Donating Member
- Street Cred : 43
Re: Rear frame supports.
It just goes from the upper control arm front bolt to the lower control arm front bolt.
bracketchev1221- G3GM Enthusiast
- Street Cred : 16
Re: Rear frame supports.
Has anyone here ever actually seen a mount rip on a G3?
74Malibu383- Donating Member
- Street Cred : 26
Re: Rear frame supports.
I ripped mine on the right side. Not off the frame but close to the weld. Too many burnouts I guess.
Joe73- Donating Member
- Street Cred : 83
Re: Rear frame supports.
I used to bend the right lower control arm mount.
The problem is the mount material is too thin for any real power.
If you are going to build power that will tear up suspension mounts, why not properly box the lower mount?
That bracket looks like an afterthought. It was intended to be used by the matching numbers crowd so they could occasionally beat on a high dollar car without modifying frame mounts and then discard them when they sell at Barrett Jackson.
My mounts were rewelded only and have never broken off. But I have bent them back a few times and no longer run soft tires.
If you are running worn out bushings and the mounting bolts have wear, it will also promote fatigue on the mounts. When I bent mounts the first time, it was because the bushing was bad on one side.
Thanks -
The problem is the mount material is too thin for any real power.
If you are going to build power that will tear up suspension mounts, why not properly box the lower mount?
That bracket looks like an afterthought. It was intended to be used by the matching numbers crowd so they could occasionally beat on a high dollar car without modifying frame mounts and then discard them when they sell at Barrett Jackson.
My mounts were rewelded only and have never broken off. But I have bent them back a few times and no longer run soft tires.
If you are running worn out bushings and the mounting bolts have wear, it will also promote fatigue on the mounts. When I bent mounts the first time, it was because the bushing was bad on one side.
Thanks -
jerry46765- Donating Member
- Street Cred : 20
Re: Rear frame supports.
Crazy... I've never had a problem. Countless burnouts, 590rwhp.... However, I don't want to either.... Any photos of the modifications you either of you have done to correct the situation?
74Malibu383- Donating Member
- Street Cred : 26
Re: Rear frame supports.
When I had my El Camino frame sand blasted, and looked it over, the mounts for the rear control arms looked kinda light weight for any real torque, and that's why I added some gussets.. The braces appear to be something I can also add. My Caddy engine, although not very high HP, is a torque monster, so I figured I had better do some improvements back there.
Here is where I started.....the corner of that gusset gets trimmed off after finish welding.....I have more pics someplace, of the upper mounts on the cross frame. I may take more pics next time it's up on jack stands..
Here is where I started.....the corner of that gusset gets trimmed off after finish welding.....I have more pics someplace, of the upper mounts on the cross frame. I may take more pics next time it's up on jack stands..
pila- Donating Member
- Street Cred : 43
Re: Rear frame supports.
I've never seen it on a 73-77 only a 68-72. I never had any issues with mine in my 70. I was going mid to high 1.4's in 60'.
bracketchev1221- G3GM Enthusiast
- Street Cred : 16
Re: Rear frame supports.
i just watched the 68 lemans on overhaulin.when the camera did a birds eyed view of the parts,those frame supports were in the pile of parts.
maybe if Chippy does them,there got to be a reason.
maybe if Chippy does them,there got to be a reason.
1973 454 MONTE- Donating Member
- Street Cred : 36
Re: Rear frame supports.
Most of the high end suspension kits (global west, Hotchkis, etc) include them so they must do something.
dynchel- Donating Member
- Street Cred : 40
Re: Rear frame supports.
With all the huge power numbers on engines these days, having some extra beef to hold the rear end in place seems like the way to prevent damage back there. Bent stuff back there wouldn't be very easy to repair......
Boxed control arms can't do it all....
Boxed control arms can't do it all....
pila- Donating Member
- Street Cred : 43
Re: Rear frame supports.
Ok, got my Global West rear frame supports in the mail today. Well made product. Jegs.com ($140) price matched the Global West Site ($80) and got free shipping.
First thing I noticed is that the hardware package contained (2) long bolts and (2) short bolts. Found that odd because I was under the impression that these bolted to the control arm bolts. When in doubt, read the directions. Found out that the long bolt is for mounting the support to the FRONT of the lower control. The other end does not go to the upper control arm bolt on the crossmember. When the front bolt is in place you just rotate the support up to the crossmember right next to where you have the two holes for the mufflers rear hanger. About 2 inches to the center over. They want you to drill a 1/2" hole and use the shorter bolt to mount it up.
At first, I didnt like the setup. But did some research on the net and found that the variations in chassis dimensions made GM use an oval mounting hole on their supports. I dont like the oval idea. So I went out and rotated them up into position again to see how it looks. Well, I find that with it being on the bottom of the crossmember you get a more level "triangulation" for the frame. And also, the angle is not as severe going to the crossmember so it looks like it would leave even more room for the muffler.
No pics yet, frame is just sitting on stands til I move my lift over. Cant wait to get the frame to "roller" again.
Just some things I found with these global west rear frame supports. Any help in that back area I think is good.
First thing I noticed is that the hardware package contained (2) long bolts and (2) short bolts. Found that odd because I was under the impression that these bolted to the control arm bolts. When in doubt, read the directions. Found out that the long bolt is for mounting the support to the FRONT of the lower control. The other end does not go to the upper control arm bolt on the crossmember. When the front bolt is in place you just rotate the support up to the crossmember right next to where you have the two holes for the mufflers rear hanger. About 2 inches to the center over. They want you to drill a 1/2" hole and use the shorter bolt to mount it up.
At first, I didnt like the setup. But did some research on the net and found that the variations in chassis dimensions made GM use an oval mounting hole on their supports. I dont like the oval idea. So I went out and rotated them up into position again to see how it looks. Well, I find that with it being on the bottom of the crossmember you get a more level "triangulation" for the frame. And also, the angle is not as severe going to the crossmember so it looks like it would leave even more room for the muffler.
No pics yet, frame is just sitting on stands til I move my lift over. Cant wait to get the frame to "roller" again.
Just some things I found with these global west rear frame supports. Any help in that back area I think is good.
Joe73- Donating Member
- Street Cred : 83
Re: Rear frame supports.
I'd love to see some pics even if the frame is on stands.
74Malibu383- Donating Member
- Street Cred : 26
Re: Rear frame supports.
I want time slips!!!!! Get these cars out there!!!!
bracketchev1221- G3GM Enthusiast
- Street Cred : 16
Re: Rear frame supports.
Maybe this spring!bracketchev1221 wrote:I want time slips!!!!! Get these cars out there!!!!
driveit- Donating Member
- Street Cred : 15
Re: Rear frame supports.
You must be someplace sunny and warm. It's winter up here. The only time measured around here now is how long it takes to go from 0 to 60...degrees.bracketchev1221 wrote:I want time slips!!!!! Get these cars out there!!!!
thatfnthing- Donating Member
- Street Cred : 65
Re: Rear frame supports.
I'm in Orlando this week and its like 70°. Very different than the deep freeze of NE Ohio.
dynchel- Donating Member
- Street Cred : 40
Re: Rear frame supports.
Sorry Ray...I'm too old to get time slips anymore !
pila- Donating Member
- Street Cred : 43
Re: Rear frame supports.
You'll be fine, the ride shouldn't take THAT long!!!!!!pila wrote:Sorry Ray...I'm too old to get time slips anymore !
bracketchev1221- G3GM Enthusiast
- Street Cred : 16
Re: Rear frame supports.
I just received the same global west braces today. Since I was off and it was 70° I figured wth and installed them. Two issues I ran into. First was my hardware was wrong, I was sent four long bolts, not two long and two short. A quick trip to ace hardware solved that. The second problem was worse, when the brace was swung up and holes drilled the hole was right next to (the inside of) the mount for the center control arms (if that's what they are called) what I will probably have to do is grind one side of the nut flat so it can be installed. Other option would be to remove the center arms and drop the bolt down through P.I.T.A.Joe73 wrote:Ok, got my Global West rear frame supports in the mail today. Well made product. Jegs.com ($140) price matched the Global West Site ($80) and got free shipping.
First thing I noticed is that the hardware package contained (2) long bolts and (2) short bolts. Found that odd because I was under the impression that these bolted to the control arm bolts. When in doubt, read the directions. Found out that the long bolt is for mounting the support to the FRONT of the lower control. The other end does not go to the upper control arm bolt on the crossmember. When the front bolt is in place you just rotate the support up to the crossmember right next to where you have the two holes for the mufflers rear hanger. About 2 inches to the center over. They want you to drill a 1/2" hole and use the shorter bolt to mount it up.
At first, I didnt like the setup. But did some research on the net and found that the variations in chassis dimensions made GM use an oval mounting hole on their supports. I dont like the oval idea. So I went out and rotated them up into position again to see how it looks. Well, I find that with it being on the bottom of the crossmember you get a more level "triangulation" for the frame. And also, the angle is not as severe going to the crossmember so it looks like it would leave even more room for the muffler.
No pics yet, frame is just sitting on stands til I move my lift over. Cant wait to get the frame to "roller" again.
Just some things I found with these global west rear frame supports. Any help in that back area I think is good.
dynchel- Donating Member
- Street Cred : 40
Re: Rear frame supports.
I just took a look at mine. My frame is sitting on my lift with no control arms installed. So I have plenty of access.
I see what you mean. My passenger side arm, when swung up to meet the crossmember, lines up along side the vertical brace that the bolt goes through for the upper control arm.
So just to clarify where I'm talking about. Passenger side, thin vertical brace thats welded from the bottom of the frame cross brace, going upwards. It has a hole in it for the upper control arm bolt.
I end up just inside of that vertical piece. So yes, I would have to grind the washer a little bit so it lays flat. But I think the nut will go on. But I like your idea better of just dropping in the bolt from the top. Dont think there will be a problem then.
Another thing I noticed, again on the same passenger side, is that when I swing the brace up it just touches my "E" brake mounting bracket. So much so that it moves the brace outwards about a 1/16" to 1/8". Not a big deal. I'd just touch that with the grinder quickly.
So yes, I see what you mean. Is your issue also on the passenger side?
Wonder why they just didnt make them bolt onto the nut for the upper control arm and put an adjustment nut in the center of the brace for fine tuning.
Either way, I think these arms will be very beneficial in our cars. Especially since I crack a control arm perch once already.
I see what you mean. My passenger side arm, when swung up to meet the crossmember, lines up along side the vertical brace that the bolt goes through for the upper control arm.
So just to clarify where I'm talking about. Passenger side, thin vertical brace thats welded from the bottom of the frame cross brace, going upwards. It has a hole in it for the upper control arm bolt.
I end up just inside of that vertical piece. So yes, I would have to grind the washer a little bit so it lays flat. But I think the nut will go on. But I like your idea better of just dropping in the bolt from the top. Dont think there will be a problem then.
Another thing I noticed, again on the same passenger side, is that when I swing the brace up it just touches my "E" brake mounting bracket. So much so that it moves the brace outwards about a 1/16" to 1/8". Not a big deal. I'd just touch that with the grinder quickly.
So yes, I see what you mean. Is your issue also on the passenger side?
Wonder why they just didnt make them bolt onto the nut for the upper control arm and put an adjustment nut in the center of the brace for fine tuning.
Either way, I think these arms will be very beneficial in our cars. Especially since I crack a control arm perch once already.
Joe73- Donating Member
- Street Cred : 83
Re: Rear frame supports.
I don't have a problem with the e brake bracket, and yes both arms are fighting for the same space on the cross member. I will probably try grinding the side of the nuts flat first since its a lot easier.
dynchel- Donating Member
- Street Cred : 40
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