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Post by BAS-Sr Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:24 am

Getting parts together for the buildup of the factory 350 that came in the '76 Laguna S3 I picked up in January, going to keep the original 350 but using a 400 crank (have the flexplate and harmonic balancer too) into a 383. I also picked up a set of 400 heads and cleaning them up. I am on a budget so don't get carried away with a ton of "RACING" type suggestions! Just want to get the 350 (or 383 to be!) up around 325/350 hp.

When I was cleaning the heads and parts, while I was cleaning the valve springs, it is just easier and more practical to just buy stock style springs, wondring about some brands I have seen.

Anyone had any experience with "Engine Pro RV880X" valve springs? 

Found these and seem to be reasonably priced for stock replacement applications. $26.95 shipped for 16.

Opinions? Comments?
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Post by bigredlaguna Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:23 pm

What camshaft are you planning on using? Would you consider using Vortec heads? The Vortec heads are the best factory head made for the Gen 1 sbc, and the only real expense added is for an intake manifold to fit the heads.
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Post by BAS-Sr Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:48 pm

bigredlaguna wrote:What camshaft are you planning on using? Would you consider using Vortec heads? The Vortec heads are the best factory head made for the Gen 1 sbc, and the only real expense added is for an intake manifold to fit the heads.

I hear what you are saying about the Vortec heads, but what advantage do I really get with them? These 400 heads are 1.94" intake with 1.50" exhaust. I have a 400 (.030 over bore so it is really a 406) in my '75 el Camino now that I really like the performance from it. Stock style pistons so I can regular, stock 400 heads but I polished the runners, breathes nicely with a 350 CI 360 hp hydraulic GM camshaft (don't have the spec's on it). With the headers it breathes nicely, puts out just enough HP and Torque to keep that el Camino moving nicely. That is what I am looking for out of this motor for the Laguna and I get to keep the original 350 block in it!

I could push the exhaust valves up to 1.60", but beyond that I am not sure I want to do any more to it......
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Post by bigredlaguna Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:37 pm

The flow characteristics of the Vortec at low valve lifts is what makes it a very good head for your project. The chamber helps the combustion process do work instead of just make noise.

I believe that the part throttle performance would be better with the Vortec heads, and you would enjoy that as much if not more than outright wot power.

But if you just want to get the engine together, and you already have the 882's massaged a bit, then go ahead and run them. Concerning the springs, I have not heard of them.
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Post by 73ss Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:13 pm

882's are probably the worst factory iron head ever made. They started showing up in '74. Restrictive exhaust ports, result of early efforts to clean up emissions.

I have a set of 882's plucked from a '74 Z-28. They have 2.02's and screw in studs with guide plates, (Same casting number as a 1.94 head). Last year for the 2.02's. I'll put them on flea bay one day. They might be worth something to someone doing a "numbers matching" resto on a Z-28. Also used on '74 L-82 vettes.
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Post by pila Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:15 pm

In my 400 (408) I had the bigger 202,160 valve seat areas opened up, and did the usual porting & polishing, and had them shaved a bit. Those heads are 76 cc chambers, so flat top pistons help a bit with CR.
I also used 350 rods (5.7 as opposed to the 5.565 )
It's a strong engine & runs decent. Of course the 383 is the best of both worlds, long stroke and no issues from the siamese cylinders arrangement/cooling..

If you are gonna use a mild cam, stock type spring should work OK The Comp springs for my 280Magnum cam are $66. bucks, so you likely don't need those.












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Post by BAS-Sr Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:09 am

bigredlaguna wrote:The flow characteristics of the Vortec at low valve lifts is what makes it a very good head for your project. The chamber helps the combustion process do work instead of just make noise.

I believe that the part throttle performance would be better with the Vortec heads, and you would enjoy that as much if not more than outright wot power.

But if you just want to get the engine together, and you already have the 882's massaged a bit, then go ahead and run them. Concerning the springs, I have not heard of them.

From my memory, the Vortec motors came out in '96? So what Vortec heads are the best for flow? Any part numbers that I could look for? I did a quick search on the local CL, found a few but some of the guys are asking more than I can afford on this build.
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Post by BAS-Sr Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:11 am

73ss wrote:882's are probably the worst factory iron head ever made. They started showing up in '74. Restrictive exhaust ports, result of early efforts to clean up emissions.

I have a set of 882's plucked from a '74 Z-28. They have 2.02's and screw in studs with guide plates, (Same casting number as a 1.94 head). Last year for the 2.02's. I'll put them on flea bay one day. They might be worth something to someone doing a "numbers matching" resto on a Z-28. Also used on '74 L-82 vettes.

That is what is on the 350 now, the 882's. The 400 heads are 3973493's, which are a little better. The larger intake valve size is not always the best like on the 882's you have!
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Post by Podor Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:31 am

Heads, in my opinion, are more important than any other component when it comes to performance. I have run the Vortec heads on 2 different engines and they are awesome. They are based off the LT1 heads, I think it's called "lean burn" combustion chambers. The 67cc chambers will give you a strong boost in compression. The ports are cast in a way that really doesn't need additional porting, and the ports themselves flow significantly better than any other stock head. 2 things to consider, you will need a different intake manifold since the bolts go straight down instead of parallel with the head surface and no center bolts. You will also need self centering rocker arms that have notches that fit over the valve stems.

Here's my thought on building an engine. Use the best parts you can, even if it requires saving a bit more money and extending your timeline. You will be happier in the long run.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Performance/809/12558060/10002/-1
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Post by BAS-Sr Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:05 am

Any opinions/input on the 14101081 heads? Has a date code of K 23 6 (or last might be an 8 ).
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Post by Joe73 Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:33 am

I was always Leary of the 400 heads because of the drilled steam holes.
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Post by BAS-Sr Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:29 pm

BAS-Sr wrote:Any opinions/input on the 14101081 heads? Has a date code of K 23 6 (or last might be an 8 ).

Forgot to say that I saw a pair of these up on local CL, did some quick checking, these seem to be mid '80's 305 TBI heads, really not the late '90's Vortec I think are being referred to in this thread?
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Post by bigredlaguna Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:23 pm

The 081 head gets you a compression boost, but that is really the only advantage. Small valves, small runners, and the old school wedge combustion chamber, would get you a torquey engine and great throttle response but little else. There are some on this forum using 305 heads on a 350 and they like them, but I think a 383 is just too much for the 081 head.

Just curious, but do you know how much it is going to cost to rework what you have? Because Scoggin-Dickey has a vortec head conversion kit that is a little over $1000.00 right now. It has everything you would need to put a fresh set of vortecs on your shortblock.

https://sdparts.com/i-23896377-sdpc-sd8060kit-vortec-head-kit-edelbrock-performer-intake.html

Around my part of the country, I can get a set of heads freshened up for about 400-500 bucks with the cost of the springs being the variable. You can make good power with the heads you have now, it's just for an extra 500, the vortecs are so much better that the value is unbeatable.

How much are people asking for a set of vortec heads near you? You may just ask a local machine shop if they have a set they can work up for you. You could potentially beat the S-D price if they have the rockers and valve covers available, and then all you would need to source is an intake manifold.

I myself have a vortec headed 350 with a small cam. It is a blast to cruise in. I also have a 5.7 rod 383 with a 280 magnum cam and old school heads that I will be putting in my 76 Laguna, so I will be experiencing practically the same performance you will once I get it put together. I do plan on either swapping vortecs onto the 383, or building the original 400 with either vortecs or an aftermarket head.
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Post by bigredlaguna Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:24 pm

The vortec casting numbers will have either 906 or 062 for the last three numbers.
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Post by BAS-Sr Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:31 pm

bigredlaguna wrote:
How much are people asking for a set of vortec heads near you? You may just ask a local machine shop if they have a set they can work up for you.

Found a set of Vortec 906 '98 heads on local CL ad for $125, guys says they came off a running motor, but no claim as to how good they are?
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Post by bigredlaguna Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:51 pm

I would look at those. Perhaps negotiate with the seller that you want to magnflux them to check for cracks before buying? If you can get the covers and rockers, you got a good deal there.
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Post by BAS-Sr Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:57 pm

bigredlaguna wrote:I would look at those. Perhaps negotiate with the seller that you want to magnflux them to check for cracks before buying? If you can get the covers and rockers, you got a good deal there.

Thinking along the same lines! 

What intakes are available for these heads? Any decent GM aluminum ones? I have the '70 LT1 on my 406 now, really like that setup with a Holley 750. Took a little finagling with the brackets for the cruise control on the Holley and the 200-4R cable too! The Laguna does not have cruise, THANK GOD!
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Post by bigredlaguna Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:47 pm

I bought an Edelbrock Performer EPS. The regular performer and the RPM are available also. New price at Summit is around 235-250 dollars. GM performance manifolds are more expensive. You can find better pricing if you shop around a bit.

The little bit of reading I did about manifolds suggests that the performer is slightly less of a power producer than the lt1, and the rpm is a slightly higher power producer than the lt1. Since the old style manifolds won't fit, you could use whichever vortec performer you want (in your case, probably which one would be easiest to fit to the bracketry) and have similar performance to what the lt1 would provide.
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Post by ant7377 Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:41 pm

I have the Scoggin Dickey set up on my 77 Monte. Does ok I'm not beating anyone with it . You guys that are running them what total timing are you running? Also I have found I really had to jet up my Holley maybe 5 jet sizes,could of been 7 in the primary to see some color on the plugs. Runs decent though. I think for what it costs to get a set of heads done you could shop around and get something really good.
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Post by bigredlaguna Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:56 pm

I will have to double check mine, but my initial is about 12* plus whatever the mech advance is for the factory weights. It's close to 20* though. I also have the lightest springs for the advance curve. This does a LOT for the responsiveness of the engine.

The carb is a Edelbrock 600 cfm. It was a 1406, but the engine needed a 1405 jetting that is a step rich from the factory 1405 setting. So yeah, it needed more fuel.
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Post by JF74chevelle Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:06 pm

I got my aluminum brodix heads for $975. Assembled put them on with my comp xe274h and it’s a wild ride. Beats any stock head for sure. I had 882’s on my old engine they were junk, pulled the 493 heads off my buddy’s 400 and he took one look and he ordered a pair of promaxx 220s never looked back. Weight reduction with a ton more power. The heads are the most important part of an engine build. DO NOT SKIMP ON HEADS!!!
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Post by brownbomber77 Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:34 am

That Engine Pro part number is a stock replacement. Howards sells valve springs, 98111, good to .515 lift and are only $30. Drop in replacement. If you're paying someone to do the work on the Vortec heads, it's not really worth it compared to a better aftermarket casting. You can, however, buy the tools to cut the valve guidles down, they're like $100.

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Post by BAS-Sr Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:42 am

brownbomber77 wrote:That Engine Pro part number is a stock replacement.  Howards sells valve springs, 98111, good to .515 lift and are only $30.  Drop in replacement.  If you're paying someone to do the work on the Vortec heads, it's not really worth it compared to a better aftermarket casting.  You can, however, buy the tools to cut the valve guidles down, they're like $100.  

I have done (grind seats and valves) a few sets of heads in my time, don't have the tools these days. Renting the seat grinder is OK, but finding someone other than a machine shop to do the valves is probably the biggest PITA!

When I was younger, my Dad had access to the AutoShop on the local military base and we did a few there, they had the tools so it was pretty convenient.
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Post by Iggy Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:08 pm

There is more to heads than flow numbers.  Also consider that today you can buy better than stock heads with good springs already installed for less than you can rebuild a set of stock heads.  Your 493's are a good head - if it were 1972, they are basically a copy of the 487 casting with steam holes for a 400.  The 160cc intake runners are small for a 350 let alone a 383 or 400 and the weak stock exhaust ports hurt performance.

Vortec heads are a good head, but are not a one size fits all.  They were basically designed to provide good torque in a 350 on a truck chassis.  There flow numbers made them a good street performance head on the cheap but need work for a cam with more then .450 lift.  They are also plagued by the weak stock exhaust port - that can be crutched with a cam with 10* more duration than the intake side.  If you want to make 350 HP or more out of a 383 it will take more cam than the stock Vortec springs or guides will tolerate, so you will be looking at machining the guides and installing better springs.  If you want to go the Vortec route, look at the EngineQuest Vortec Replacement head (CH350C) - it has a better casting, thicker decks, already cleared for higher lift.  I have used them on a couple of builds and really like them, you can get an assembled set including head bolts and performance springs on e-bay for $700.
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Post by BAS-Sr Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:13 pm

bigredlaguna wrote: The 081 head gets you a compression boost, but that is really the only advantage. Small valves, small runners, and the old school wedge combustion chamber, would get you a torquey engine and great throttle response but little else. There are some on this forum using 305 heads on a 350 and they like them, but I think a 383 is just too much for the 081 head.

Just curious, but do you know how much it is going to cost to rework what you have? Because Scoggin-Dickey has a vortec head conversion kit that is a little over $1000.00 right now. It has everything you would need to put a fresh set of vortecs on your shortblock.

https://sdparts.com/i-23896377-sdpc-sd8060kit-vortec-head-kit-edelbrock-performer-intake.html

Around my part of the country, I can get a set of heads freshened up for about 400-500 bucks with the cost of the springs being the variable. You can make good power with the heads you have now, it's just for an extra 500, the vortecs are so much better that the value is unbeatable.

How much are people asking for a set of vortec heads near you? You may just ask a local machine shop if they have a set they can work up for you. You could potentially beat the S-D price if they have the rockers and valve covers available, and then all you would need to source is an intake manifold.

I myself have a vortec headed 350 with a small cam. It is a blast to cruise in. I also have a 5.7 rod 383 with a 280 magnum cam and old school heads that I will be putting in my 76 Laguna, so I will be experiencing practically the same performance you will once I get it put together. I do plan on either swapping vortecs onto the 383, or building the original 400 with either vortecs or an aftermarket head.

Talked to the guy with the 906 heads, said he took them off a running motor he changed into a 383. The motor ran well when these were removed, he changed them out for a set of aluminum heads.

So with these 906 heads, what are my options for intakes? Again, I would like to get something that resembles the '70 LT1 intake I have on my 406. 

Also, is there anything I should do to these 906 heads if I get them other than the standard grind, maybe new guides & springs?
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